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Post by Barbara on May 9, 2006 10:51:58 GMT -5
I've finaly seen it this weekend, I somehow missed the oportunity each time before. I was quite shocked! I mean I knew a little about all this but I didn't know everything comes so far... So I wonder what do you people think about it, as you are there, in USA. I imagine Michael Moore shows one side of american people, accualy I was wondering how "big" is all this, if the people he's talking about is an extreme of population or is it comming to an american generality...well, I guess not or at least sure hope not! It does sounds scary and sad though  ...makes you realise again how powerful is the influence of the medias and politicians... So, can you tell me a bit about all this and what do you think about it...? I'd love to have more points of view from people who actualy live there... |
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Post by christian12475 on May 11, 2006 16:58:30 GMT -5
Well then, Michael Moore likes to breed hate and point fingers but as for bowling for columbine, it's shows you how sick the american culture actually is. The one part he tells about the city across the lake from Detroit, Michigan in Canada. Detroit has several murders by gun shots a day, and the city in Canada hasn't had one in 15-20 years. That just shows you how different the people are raised only 1 mile apart. Americans love violence, we live for it, I watch the news every morning before work, 10 minutes of rapes & murders, I don't know if it happens more now than it used to or the media is better organized and reports more stuff now. innocent people have been killed all through history, our country has only been around for 250 years , been apart 6 wars, killed how many Indians just because they were in our way, and people today just doing stupid shit all the time. This country is built on killing people and then Hollywood makes all these slasher film ( which I love ). All I can say is people are fucked up and who do you blame? I blame no-one, it's our nature to kill.
I'll make a shoehorn with your shin... death sells!!!
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Post by Ryan on May 11, 2006 18:39:41 GMT -5
Here's my take on Michael Moore. He's an intelligent guy with some poignant comments to make here and there. However, I think overall he is a blowhard. I also think some of these same characteristics about Rush Limbaugh. (Please don't mistake me for a fan of Rush. He is repugnant - I just don't think he is a completely unintelligent man).
So whether it's on the right or the left, anyone that tells me that they have it figured out and they are going to tell me how it is, I have a difficult time not tuning them out.
'Bowling for Columbine' had it's merits. I think violence is engrained in the American society, and he makes some very good points regarding some of it. Parts of the movie seem less focussed than others, but overall I think it is a good movie. (Not a documentary in my opinion).
What's kind of strange is that I just got a new job in Littleton, Colorado which is where Columbine High School is located. I'm sure it will be weird for me the first time that I see that school and think about what happened there.
At the end of college I met a few people (younger than me) who went to Columbine in their high school days, and they had been there on that day. It's really hard for some people to talk about, and that is totally understandable. All I can hope for was that Columbine was traumatic enough to sink into people's heart's and minds. The real tragedy would be if our society becomes callous towards remembering that event.
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Post by Ryan on May 15, 2006 8:19:01 GMT -5
Barbara, I hope I didn't scare you off with my comment. I think there are plenty of things to discuss about that movie. Its a movie that can start many discussions about many issues.
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Post by ~BEE~Happy~ on May 15, 2006 10:28:42 GMT -5
I was living in CO at the time of that tragedy. It happened on my day off, so I happened to be home watching the whole thing unfold as it happened.... it effected everybody. Very disturbing on many levels. I have to agree with bobafett too, I haven't seen the movie, but I was definitely envisioning Rush up against Michael Moore too (based on the reviews I have seen...). hey, has Micael Moore ever been on the O'Reilly Factor? That would be an interesting conversation too! |
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Post by Barbara on May 15, 2006 13:03:32 GMT -5
Barbara, I hope I didn't scare you off with my comment. I think there are plenty of things to discuss about that movie. Its a movie that can start many discussions about many issues. Oh no, Boba, I don't see why!?  Actually there's some words that I don't understand in your comments... breed (in Christian's post) blowhard tuning them out I can imagine what it means seeing the context but I prefer to ask so that it would be more clear. Boba, by saying it's a movie and not a documentary, do you mean it's too far from reality? Just asking...! Anyway, I don't think it's in americans' nature to kill...in my opinion. I think Moore makes a good point about how LOTS of nations have VERY violent past and yet they're not so violent with each other now...and I could also agree that medias have a GREAT power on people. Everywhere of course, not only in USA. I think all this could be all because of the war industry and money. I'm gonna go a little off topic maybe by passing to what happened on 9/11. I guess you all heard all of those strange facts about this event (the way the towers collapsed, the third untouched building that collapsed, the actions of the gouverment and some pple before the event etc...) and I think it may be the last thing people would want to belive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the gouverment itself that did it. It can be a matter of choice who you'll belive to, but sincerily, I have no reason to belive whatever it can be to Bush and his gouverment. What I wanted to say by passing to 9/11 subject is just how sick a gouverment can be. And how many innocent pple must die for it...  :(Nothing new I guess. I don't know your points of you and I don't want to offend anyone here. Also, I'm not a big "knower" of politics and all this and that's why I don't have any fixed opinions-cause I think I don't know enough to "have the right" to "fix" them. It's just thinking about all this with informations that I got... ...and that's also a part of the reason I'm interested in your points of view. And about Rush - who is this guy, I don't know him?  And thanks for your comments!  |
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Post by Joel on May 15, 2006 13:42:45 GMT -5
It`s a very entertaining documentary but Michael Moore just shows things from that perspective "he" wants people to see from..Alot of it is true but...Well i don`t know..
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Post by Barbara on May 16, 2006 5:54:53 GMT -5
It`s a very entertaining documentary but Michael Moore just shows things from that perspective "he" wants people to see from..Alot of it is true but...Well i don`t know.. Yes, I agree, that's what I was thinking too when I saw it. But then I thought maybe it's not so bad even if he exagerates, cause finaly what we see in general and all the time is almost everything else than what he shows. So maybe it can be a good balance |
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Post by Joel on May 16, 2006 10:05:13 GMT -5
It`s a very entertaining documentary but Michael Moore just shows things from that perspective "he" wants people to see from..Alot of it is true but...Well i don`t know.. Yes, I agree, that's what I was thinking too when I saw it. But then I thought maybe it's not so bad even if he exagerates, cause finaly what we see in general and all the time is almost everything else than what he shows. So maybe it can be a good balance I guess you`re right..We won`t see in the news what Michael Moore shows in his films. |
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Post by Ryan on May 16, 2006 10:38:30 GMT -5
Barbara, I hope I didn't scare you off with my comment. I think there are plenty of things to discuss about that movie. Its a movie that can start many discussions about many issues. Oh no, Boba, I don't see why!? Actually there's some words that I don't understand in your comments... breed (in Christian's post) blowhard tuning them out I can imagine what it means seeing the context but I prefer to ask so that it would be more clear. Boba, by saying it's a movie and not a documentary, do you mean it's too far from reality? Just asking...! Anyway, I don't think it's in americans' nature to kill...in my opinion. I think Moore makes a good point about how LOTS of nations have VERY violent past and yet they're not so violent with each other now...and I could also agree that medias have a GREAT power on people. Everywhere of course, not only in USA. I think all this could be all because of the war industry and money. I'm gonna go a little off topic maybe by passing to what happened on 9/11. I guess you all heard all of those strange facts about this event (the way the towers collapsed, the third untouched building that collapsed, the actions of the gouverment and some pple before the event etc...) and I think it may be the last thing people would want to belive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the gouverment itself that did it. It can be a matter of choice who you'll belive to, but sincerily, I have no reason to belive whatever it can be to Bush and his gouverment. What I wanted to say by passing to 9/11 subject is just how sick a gouverment can be. And how many innocent pple must die for it... :(Nothing new I guess. I don't know your points of you and I don't want to offend anyone here. Also, I'm not a big "knower" of politics and all this and that's why I don't have any fixed opinions-cause I think I don't know enough to "have the right" to "fix" them. It's just thinking about all this with informations that I got... ...and that's also a part of the reason I'm interested in your points of view. And about Rush - who is this guy, I don't know him? And thanks for your comments! Let me first try to address some of these words and phrases: When Christian says "breed hate", I think what he means is that some opinions only divide people instead of uniting them, and to "breed" means to grow in that sense. If I am reading his post correctly he means that he is growing hate by pushing dividing topics on the viewer. When I say "blowhard", what I mean is that Michael Moore has a strong opinion - a conviction. That is not wrong by itself. Convictions can be good. But anyone who pushes their opinion as the one and only truth and will not acknowledge other people's point of view is giving their opinion more credit than it deserves. I don't think he is good at acknowledging other's viewpoints (even if he believes differently). When I say "tuning them out" what I mean is that I decide not to listen to everything they say. The way that you would turn the dial on the radio to another station. It's not that I haven't listened to Michael Moore's opinions, but in general, anyone who presents their opinion as the only truth, I have a hard time listening to. What I meant about it being a movie and not a documentary is that it is full of opinions, and most documentaries that I have seen don't deal with opinions. They are suppose to document observable facts. In the same way I don't think Michael Moore is a "journalist" because he does not approach things from an objective point of view. Of course, he does not claim to be objective. . . I do agree that Michael Moore shows countries who have had a violent past, and that those countries don't necessarily have major problems with people killing their own people. I do think he shows very well that America is off the charts in how many gun-related deaths we have each year. Americans accept it as "normal" to some extent. Not that we like it, but that's how it seems to be. . . As far as 9-11 goes, I don't see the connection as much to gun-related deaths in America. There might be some connection between domestic violence, and terrorism, and war, but I don't see them as direct connections, more like in-direct connections. In regards to the conspiracy stories, I will just admit that I do not know. My opinion on that is that there are definitely Islamic fundamentalists that would like to kill Americans, but I do not think that fundamentalists ever represent the whole group of any religion or organization very well. You will rarely see a peaceful muslim on the American news, but I know there are many peaceful muslims in the world. I imagine that the American government had prior knowledge of 9-11 to some extent but to what extent I don't know. Was the American government lazy in protecting us, or were they complicit in making this tragedy happen? Maybe, I'm not sure. . . I think the word "conspiracy" has a bad reputation, but all that it means is "An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act." And under that definition, I think there are many conspiracies out there that are true. However, if you start reading all of the conspiracy theories out there, some of them are just crazy and totally untrue. I think 9-11 is the new version of "Who shot JFK". I compared Michael Moore (left) to Rush Limbaugh (right) in that they both think that they have it all figured out. They are both going to tell us what the truth is (or at least their version of the truth). Rush Limbaugh has a talk radio show that many conservative Americans listen to. He has a good comment occassionally, but in general he has many extremist views, and little compassion for others who do not share his views. Here is his website so you can read some of his opinions if you are interested: www.rushlimbaugh.comAnd just to be fair, here is Michael Moore's website: www.michaelmoore.comSome of my other thoughts about 'Bowling for Columbine': My favorite part is the cartoon about the history of America in the middle of the movie. Much of it is satire, but plenty of it is true in my opinion. I think the 'locking doors' issue is an interesting cultural topic. I don't think he shows a large sample size (not a very scientific experiment) and I doubt that he showed us any doors that he went to in Canada that were locked. But again, I thought it was interesting. I do think it was in very bad taste for Charlton Heston and the NRA to hold a pro-gun rally in the Denver area so soon after the tragedy at Columbine. That was just rude and dis-respectful in my opinion. But I also found it to be in bad taste when Michael Moore interviewed Heston at his home later in the movie. Charlton Heston was in the beginning stages of Alzheimers at the time, but Michael Moore didn't care about that because it helped him prove his point of view and present it as the truth. I don't agree with many of Heston's views, but I do not feel that Michael Moore conducted the interview with any respect for him as a person. I'm sure I haven't talked about many of the different parts of the movie, but those are some of my thoughts. . . P.S. Rarely do I see topics of a political nature show up on the Blind Melon Forum, but we also don't want to censor anyone's free speech. Everyone is welcome to share their opinions, but let's all use our love for melon to be our uniting force. Politics (and religion) can be very dividing topics. . . |
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Post by ~BEE~Happy~ on May 16, 2006 20:47:04 GMT -5
#goodevil# Wow. Bobafett, have you cosidered writing? law school? Teaching? Are you a Libra? I am so impressed with all of the information you were able to simplify, in such a respectful, peacful and fair manner. Good work! #innocent# Thank you. |
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Post by Ryan on May 16, 2006 21:17:43 GMT -5
Thanks Karen, I haven't really considered any of those fields as of yet. . .
~ Capricorn ~
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Post by ~BEE~Happy~ on May 17, 2006 6:08:26 GMT -5
I'm a capricorn too... #thumb#
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Post by Barbara on May 17, 2006 12:57:05 GMT -5
Wow Boba, yes, I must agree with Karen!!! And I also have to say it's not for the first time that I admire the way you put words together! Politics (and religion) can be very dividing topics. . . To be honest, I thought of this too and I was a bit afraid to say some things cause I can't know how people will take it and react and I sure wouldn't like to "spoil" in any way the melon love and unity!!! I just love it too much!!! So I'm sorry if I started or said anything that I shouldn't! And Ryan, again, it was a pleasure to read your post! |
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Post by Ryan on May 17, 2006 16:08:11 GMT -5
You definitely didn't post anything wrong. I'm glad you brought it up for discussion. I think it just shows that our love for Blind Melon's music is the uniting force here. But we can all have similar or different views about the world. We want people to express themselves. Please keep sharing your thoughts and ideas. And thanks for the comments. Have a wonderful day!
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...makes you realise again how powerful is the influence of the medias and politicians...
:(Nothing new I guess.
