Post by Ryan on Sept 10, 2006 10:58:00 GMT -5
All That I Need
Some basic guidelines for the trading world. . .
INTRO
This section is for Blind Melon fans to trade music. So even though everyone trades differently, I thought that I would post some general guidelines that are accepted by most trading communities. In regards to our forum, we are not saying that you cannot make a one-time post to ask for a show, but I am sure that if you join the forum, and introduce yourself, that you will have a much better chance of someone contacting you for a trade.
If you have a specific request, please post in the “Specific Request” thread. If we start a new thread for every show that each person wants, the “All That I Need” section will become a mess.
HONESTY, COMMUNICATION & PATIENCE
First and foremost trading should be fun. Honesty and communication are essential to any good trade. Let the other person know what media you will be using, where the show is sourced from (if you know), and other simple things to ensure that you both understand what you are trading for. Patience is also very important. I don’t try to pre-judge a person if I don’t receive my trade right away. Contact the person if something does not go as planned, and work to resolve it. Honesty, Communication & Patience. . .
YOUR LIST
It helps to create a list of the shows that you have. I know this one seems pretty obvious, but it is a huge step in just being able to e-mail your list (whether it is a word document, or if you post your list on-line somewhere). Be as detailed as you can about the information regarding each show: performer, date, location, venue, # of discs/media, source, etc. If you don’t know a certain piece of information, then just be honest and write “zeros” for the date, or “unknown” for the venue.
MEDIA (audio)
There are different brands and quality of media for CD-Rs. In my experience most of the Japanese discs (Fuji, Sony, etc.) are good for burning music, whereas discs that are the official Office Depot brand are not. If the discs are super cheap and totally generic, they are probably not good media to trade with. Just talk to the person who you are trading with to see if the media that you plan to use is okay with them.
MEDIA (video)
If you trade videos, then be aware that DVDRs come in two versions: (1) DVD-R (minus) and (2) DVD+R (plus). Once the disc is finalized and completed it should play in any DVD-player, but most drives will only burn from one or the other. Some people can copy videos as other video formats such as VCDs that will play in some DVD-players. There are also many types of video files that can be burned onto a data-CD or a data-DVD: MPGs, MOVs, ASFs, AVIs, etc.
And of course, there’s always good ‘ole VHS tapes. If you are trading with someone from a different country (and especially a different continent) be sure to ask if they have a (PAL) or an (NTSC) VHS tape. Actually here’s a list of which countries use which standard. I guess there is also a standard called (SECAM) as well.
www.kropla.com/tv.htm
SOURCES (Soundboard or Audience)
The most basic distinction regarding the source of a recording is whether it is an audience or a soundboard recording. Sometimes it is not very clear as to which it is, but sometimes you can definitely tell. If it is very clear with little to no audience noise, then it is most likely a soundboard recording. If the sound is not as clear, and you can hear lots of noise from the audience, then it is most likely an audience recording.
SOURCES (miscellaneous)
This is one area of trading where some traders get very detailed with the information of the recording, like what kind of rig was used to record it? What program was used to master it? Which program was used to convert it or trade it? If you know the source then you list it like so:
Recorder Model > DAT > CD > EAC > WAV > FLAC > CD. That’s just an example. I usually don’t know all of the source info – I probably just copied it from a regular WAV file audio disc. Some traders are very anal about this and other traders don’t care at all.
EAC (Exact Audio Copy)
Exact Audio Copy (EAC) is the most widely-used program by traders. It can be a simple program or it has the ability to be complex. One reason that traders love EAC is because when you are ripping the audio disc into a WAV file for your hard-drive, it tells you if there are errors in the process. For example, if you try to rip a disc that is scratched pretty badly, it will tell you what the known errors are, and how bad they are.
You can download EAC here:
www.exactaudiocopy.de/
And here is a tutorial on how to configure EAC for your specific burner drive: users.pandora.be/satcp/tutorials.htm
FILE TYPES (MP3s)
When I first started trading, I did not understand why traders hated MP3s. After trading for a while I understand why they are not good for trading. Don’t get me wrong – I love to make MP3 mix discs for the player in my truck, or loading tons of songs onto my ipod. However, MP3s are a form of compression which is called “lossy.” When you compress a WAV file into an MP3, you lose information, and you are diluting the quality of that recording. So for trading that is obviously not a good thing.
FILE TYPES (SHNs)
Shorten files (SHNs) are a form of compression that is called “lossless.” You can take the file, compress it, uncompress it, compress it, and uncompress it again, and the file will not lose any of its quality. SHNs also include an MD5 file which verifies that the entire show is present and that no files are missing. Here is a link where you can download the program for SHNs. It is called the mkw Audio Compression Tool (mkwACT): etree.org/mkw.html
FILE TYPES (FLACs)
FLACs (Free Loseless Audio Codec) are another form of "lossless" compression. These files are also highly recommended as the core source of your downloaded material. Unlike SHN files, these do not come with MD5 files. However, being much better than MP3s, this type of file deserves a thumbs-up.
flac.sourceforge.net/
When converting FLAC files to WAV format, you will need a different conversion tool than the same you'd use for SHN files. FLAC Frontend is very fast Freeware for your conversion. Below is a link that will guide you through Frontend's download.
members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm
COMPRESSED FILES on DATA DVD-R
Whenever you burn a CD there is usually a small portion of the disc that does not get used. When trading with compressed files, you can burn those SHNs or FLACs onto a data-DVD. That way the space that wasn’t used on the several CDs that you would have used is added together and usually makes enough room for one or two more shows.
BURN SETTINGS (Slow & DAO)
The slower you burn a disc, the less of a chance that the burn is bad. Some traders will request you burn their discs at a certain speed. In general, it is best not to set your CD-burner on your highest speed setting. Another important thing is to choose DAO (Disc at Once) when burning a disc. Do not choose TAO (Track at Once). If you choose TAO, the disc will have 2 or 3 second gaps between the songs, and for a live recording, that chops it up. “Disc at Once” keeps a live recording sounding complete with seamless transitions between tracks.
TO WRITE OR NOT TO WRITE
Some traders do not want you to write on the discs that you burn for them. They might prefer that you stick a piece of paper in that sleeve that indicates which show it is. Other traders will be very happy for you to write on the disc for them. It all depends on someone’s trading preferences. You might ask if they care how the shows are labeled.
B& P’s
If you don’t have much of a collection, you might think that there is no way that anyone will trade with you. But there is hope! There are some kind souls out there that will copy a show for you, but you have to help them, help you. It’s called a “B & P.” It stands for “blank & postage.” The concept is that you mail a self-addressed envelope (not yet sealed) inside another larger envelope to the person that has the show that you want. You purchase your own blank discs and put them in the package along with a note that reminds them of which show(s) you are requesting. You must put ample postage on the return envelope yourself. So that way, the other person should only have to receive your package, copy the show(s) for you, seal your self-addressed stamped envelope, and drop it in the mail. Be aware that international b & p’s are not near as easy to do as a b & p within your own country. Here is the best weblink that I have ever found for describing how to do a B & P: www.mcnichol.com/bnp/
PACKAGING
Why go to the trouble of burning discs for a trade if you are going to send it in sub-standard packaging? I just try to assume that the package will be thrown around on its trip. Bubble mailers are a great way to send a small to medium size trade.
Many traders will specifically ask that you not use “fiber-mailers”. Those are the padded envelopes that have the recycled newspaper on the insides for padding. Some traders are paranoid that all of the paper fibers scratch the disc on its journey through the postal system.
Jewel cases are really not that great of a medium to send the discs. Most traders prefer plastic sleeves (or a little bit cheaper are the paper sleeves).
Be sure to label everything correctly. It’s a bummer when the parcel returns because of something that a double-check would have caught.
ETHICS
When you are trading, it is important to remember that copyrights do exist, and that they are real. So the burning/copying of official releases is an area that most traders try to stay away from. To support the artists that you enjoy listening to, you should be buying official albums and purchasing tickets when possible.
Live recordings are somewhat of an ambiguous area, legally speaking. If you check most venues’ recording policies, they most likely state that they do not allow recording of shows at their venue. And the band usually has an official statement as to whether or not they allow their shows to be recorded. More often than not, the record label cares more about these issues than the performer(s). If you trade any specific performer’s recordings, then it is worth it to check out whether or not they are a trade-friendly band. Here is a list from Archive.org that shows bands/performers who have stated that they are trade-friendly.
www.archive.org/audio/etree-band-showall.php
Live recordings should not be bought and sold period. It is unfair to the artist if someone else is making money off music that is not theirs. If you are exchanging money for the cost of supplies (blank CD, sleeves, bubble mailer, etc.) then that is fine. But if someone is charging for the recording itself, then that is generally not tolerated within the trading community. Charging for shows is known as “bootlegging”.
Some shows that have been bootlegged in the past have made it into the hands of traders. And when a trader makes that bootleg available to the trading community, it is referred to as a “liberated bootleg”.
Some recordings are hard to define as to whether or not they are official, unofficial, bootlegs, or liberated bootlegs. If unsure, then try searching for information regarding the source of the show.
Please be aware that there are different ideas and perspectives regarding the trading of live shows. Educate yourself about the circumstances of the shows that you have or are interested in. Be aware of how others feel about these ethical issues that regard trading. If you enjoy many unofficial, live recordings of a performer, then make sure to also support that performer by buying albums/tickets.
MAJOR TRADING SITES
These sites are good resources for finding traders, finding existing shows that are in circulation, or for finding information about a show you have but don’t know all the info about it.
Etree
etree.org/
Phishhook
www.phishhook.com
TapeTrader
www.tapetrader.com
GETTING BURNED
If you trade long enough, you will eventually get burned. Out of the couple hundred trades that I’ve done, I think I’ve only been burned twice. That’s one out of a hundred – not too bad in my opinion. Most people are usually in this because they love to listen to music, and most people will try to do a good job at making a fair trade. But life ain’t fair, so if you trade for a while, you will eventually run across someone who burns you.
Having said that, here is a list of just a few (of the many) download sites on the internet. I can’t even keep up with them all – they’re endless:
DOWNLAODING SITES
Internet Archive
www.archive.org/index.php
Dime-A-Dozen
www.dimeadozen.org/
Traders Den
www.thetradersden.org/
Colorado Tapers
www.cotapers.org
OiNK
oink.me.uk/
There are so many out there, just do a search, and you will find more stuff than you could ever possibly download.
TORRENTS
If you don’t know about torrents yet, then you will need to learn about them for downloading, because most websites where you can download large files use bit torrents. It is the preferred method of downloading these days. . .
You will need to download a Bit Torrent program to be able to download torrent files. Here are just a few. Again, there are so many Bit Torrent programs out there. Search, and ye shall find. . .
Bit Torrent
www.bittorrent.com/index.html
Azureus
azureus.sourceforge.net/
Bit Tornado
www.bittornado.com/
There is file-sharing etiquette, just like there is trading etiquette. When you download shows, you are doing so because someone was willing to share them. Likewise, if you only download shows, and do not make files available to your peers, then you are referred to as a “leecher”. To make a show available to everyone is called “seeding” the show. Many torrent programs show your “health” or position of good/bad standing by your ratio of sharing shows and downloading them.
I do not pretend to know much about torrents at the moment, so I will post this link that has more information than I can give.
www.bittorrent.org/introduction.html
Some basic guidelines for the trading world. . .
INTRO
This section is for Blind Melon fans to trade music. So even though everyone trades differently, I thought that I would post some general guidelines that are accepted by most trading communities. In regards to our forum, we are not saying that you cannot make a one-time post to ask for a show, but I am sure that if you join the forum, and introduce yourself, that you will have a much better chance of someone contacting you for a trade.
If you have a specific request, please post in the “Specific Request” thread. If we start a new thread for every show that each person wants, the “All That I Need” section will become a mess.
HONESTY, COMMUNICATION & PATIENCE
First and foremost trading should be fun. Honesty and communication are essential to any good trade. Let the other person know what media you will be using, where the show is sourced from (if you know), and other simple things to ensure that you both understand what you are trading for. Patience is also very important. I don’t try to pre-judge a person if I don’t receive my trade right away. Contact the person if something does not go as planned, and work to resolve it. Honesty, Communication & Patience. . .
YOUR LIST
It helps to create a list of the shows that you have. I know this one seems pretty obvious, but it is a huge step in just being able to e-mail your list (whether it is a word document, or if you post your list on-line somewhere). Be as detailed as you can about the information regarding each show: performer, date, location, venue, # of discs/media, source, etc. If you don’t know a certain piece of information, then just be honest and write “zeros” for the date, or “unknown” for the venue.
MEDIA (audio)
There are different brands and quality of media for CD-Rs. In my experience most of the Japanese discs (Fuji, Sony, etc.) are good for burning music, whereas discs that are the official Office Depot brand are not. If the discs are super cheap and totally generic, they are probably not good media to trade with. Just talk to the person who you are trading with to see if the media that you plan to use is okay with them.
MEDIA (video)
If you trade videos, then be aware that DVDRs come in two versions: (1) DVD-R (minus) and (2) DVD+R (plus). Once the disc is finalized and completed it should play in any DVD-player, but most drives will only burn from one or the other. Some people can copy videos as other video formats such as VCDs that will play in some DVD-players. There are also many types of video files that can be burned onto a data-CD or a data-DVD: MPGs, MOVs, ASFs, AVIs, etc.
And of course, there’s always good ‘ole VHS tapes. If you are trading with someone from a different country (and especially a different continent) be sure to ask if they have a (PAL) or an (NTSC) VHS tape. Actually here’s a list of which countries use which standard. I guess there is also a standard called (SECAM) as well.
www.kropla.com/tv.htm
SOURCES (Soundboard or Audience)
The most basic distinction regarding the source of a recording is whether it is an audience or a soundboard recording. Sometimes it is not very clear as to which it is, but sometimes you can definitely tell. If it is very clear with little to no audience noise, then it is most likely a soundboard recording. If the sound is not as clear, and you can hear lots of noise from the audience, then it is most likely an audience recording.
SOURCES (miscellaneous)
This is one area of trading where some traders get very detailed with the information of the recording, like what kind of rig was used to record it? What program was used to master it? Which program was used to convert it or trade it? If you know the source then you list it like so:
Recorder Model > DAT > CD > EAC > WAV > FLAC > CD. That’s just an example. I usually don’t know all of the source info – I probably just copied it from a regular WAV file audio disc. Some traders are very anal about this and other traders don’t care at all.
EAC (Exact Audio Copy)
Exact Audio Copy (EAC) is the most widely-used program by traders. It can be a simple program or it has the ability to be complex. One reason that traders love EAC is because when you are ripping the audio disc into a WAV file for your hard-drive, it tells you if there are errors in the process. For example, if you try to rip a disc that is scratched pretty badly, it will tell you what the known errors are, and how bad they are.
You can download EAC here:
www.exactaudiocopy.de/
And here is a tutorial on how to configure EAC for your specific burner drive: users.pandora.be/satcp/tutorials.htm
FILE TYPES (MP3s)
When I first started trading, I did not understand why traders hated MP3s. After trading for a while I understand why they are not good for trading. Don’t get me wrong – I love to make MP3 mix discs for the player in my truck, or loading tons of songs onto my ipod. However, MP3s are a form of compression which is called “lossy.” When you compress a WAV file into an MP3, you lose information, and you are diluting the quality of that recording. So for trading that is obviously not a good thing.
FILE TYPES (SHNs)
Shorten files (SHNs) are a form of compression that is called “lossless.” You can take the file, compress it, uncompress it, compress it, and uncompress it again, and the file will not lose any of its quality. SHNs also include an MD5 file which verifies that the entire show is present and that no files are missing. Here is a link where you can download the program for SHNs. It is called the mkw Audio Compression Tool (mkwACT): etree.org/mkw.html
FILE TYPES (FLACs)
FLACs (Free Loseless Audio Codec) are another form of "lossless" compression. These files are also highly recommended as the core source of your downloaded material. Unlike SHN files, these do not come with MD5 files. However, being much better than MP3s, this type of file deserves a thumbs-up.
flac.sourceforge.net/
When converting FLAC files to WAV format, you will need a different conversion tool than the same you'd use for SHN files. FLAC Frontend is very fast Freeware for your conversion. Below is a link that will guide you through Frontend's download.
members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm
COMPRESSED FILES on DATA DVD-R
Whenever you burn a CD there is usually a small portion of the disc that does not get used. When trading with compressed files, you can burn those SHNs or FLACs onto a data-DVD. That way the space that wasn’t used on the several CDs that you would have used is added together and usually makes enough room for one or two more shows.
BURN SETTINGS (Slow & DAO)
The slower you burn a disc, the less of a chance that the burn is bad. Some traders will request you burn their discs at a certain speed. In general, it is best not to set your CD-burner on your highest speed setting. Another important thing is to choose DAO (Disc at Once) when burning a disc. Do not choose TAO (Track at Once). If you choose TAO, the disc will have 2 or 3 second gaps between the songs, and for a live recording, that chops it up. “Disc at Once” keeps a live recording sounding complete with seamless transitions between tracks.
TO WRITE OR NOT TO WRITE
Some traders do not want you to write on the discs that you burn for them. They might prefer that you stick a piece of paper in that sleeve that indicates which show it is. Other traders will be very happy for you to write on the disc for them. It all depends on someone’s trading preferences. You might ask if they care how the shows are labeled.
B& P’s
If you don’t have much of a collection, you might think that there is no way that anyone will trade with you. But there is hope! There are some kind souls out there that will copy a show for you, but you have to help them, help you. It’s called a “B & P.” It stands for “blank & postage.” The concept is that you mail a self-addressed envelope (not yet sealed) inside another larger envelope to the person that has the show that you want. You purchase your own blank discs and put them in the package along with a note that reminds them of which show(s) you are requesting. You must put ample postage on the return envelope yourself. So that way, the other person should only have to receive your package, copy the show(s) for you, seal your self-addressed stamped envelope, and drop it in the mail. Be aware that international b & p’s are not near as easy to do as a b & p within your own country. Here is the best weblink that I have ever found for describing how to do a B & P: www.mcnichol.com/bnp/
PACKAGING
Why go to the trouble of burning discs for a trade if you are going to send it in sub-standard packaging? I just try to assume that the package will be thrown around on its trip. Bubble mailers are a great way to send a small to medium size trade.
Many traders will specifically ask that you not use “fiber-mailers”. Those are the padded envelopes that have the recycled newspaper on the insides for padding. Some traders are paranoid that all of the paper fibers scratch the disc on its journey through the postal system.
Jewel cases are really not that great of a medium to send the discs. Most traders prefer plastic sleeves (or a little bit cheaper are the paper sleeves).
Be sure to label everything correctly. It’s a bummer when the parcel returns because of something that a double-check would have caught.
ETHICS
When you are trading, it is important to remember that copyrights do exist, and that they are real. So the burning/copying of official releases is an area that most traders try to stay away from. To support the artists that you enjoy listening to, you should be buying official albums and purchasing tickets when possible.
Live recordings are somewhat of an ambiguous area, legally speaking. If you check most venues’ recording policies, they most likely state that they do not allow recording of shows at their venue. And the band usually has an official statement as to whether or not they allow their shows to be recorded. More often than not, the record label cares more about these issues than the performer(s). If you trade any specific performer’s recordings, then it is worth it to check out whether or not they are a trade-friendly band. Here is a list from Archive.org that shows bands/performers who have stated that they are trade-friendly.
www.archive.org/audio/etree-band-showall.php
Live recordings should not be bought and sold period. It is unfair to the artist if someone else is making money off music that is not theirs. If you are exchanging money for the cost of supplies (blank CD, sleeves, bubble mailer, etc.) then that is fine. But if someone is charging for the recording itself, then that is generally not tolerated within the trading community. Charging for shows is known as “bootlegging”.
Some shows that have been bootlegged in the past have made it into the hands of traders. And when a trader makes that bootleg available to the trading community, it is referred to as a “liberated bootleg”.
Some recordings are hard to define as to whether or not they are official, unofficial, bootlegs, or liberated bootlegs. If unsure, then try searching for information regarding the source of the show.
Please be aware that there are different ideas and perspectives regarding the trading of live shows. Educate yourself about the circumstances of the shows that you have or are interested in. Be aware of how others feel about these ethical issues that regard trading. If you enjoy many unofficial, live recordings of a performer, then make sure to also support that performer by buying albums/tickets.
MAJOR TRADING SITES
These sites are good resources for finding traders, finding existing shows that are in circulation, or for finding information about a show you have but don’t know all the info about it.
Etree
etree.org/
Phishhook
www.phishhook.com
TapeTrader
www.tapetrader.com
GETTING BURNED
If you trade long enough, you will eventually get burned. Out of the couple hundred trades that I’ve done, I think I’ve only been burned twice. That’s one out of a hundred – not too bad in my opinion. Most people are usually in this because they love to listen to music, and most people will try to do a good job at making a fair trade. But life ain’t fair, so if you trade for a while, you will eventually run across someone who burns you.
Having said that, here is a list of just a few (of the many) download sites on the internet. I can’t even keep up with them all – they’re endless:
DOWNLAODING SITES
Internet Archive
www.archive.org/index.php
Dime-A-Dozen
www.dimeadozen.org/
Traders Den
www.thetradersden.org/
Colorado Tapers
www.cotapers.org
OiNK
oink.me.uk/
There are so many out there, just do a search, and you will find more stuff than you could ever possibly download.
TORRENTS
If you don’t know about torrents yet, then you will need to learn about them for downloading, because most websites where you can download large files use bit torrents. It is the preferred method of downloading these days. . .
You will need to download a Bit Torrent program to be able to download torrent files. Here are just a few. Again, there are so many Bit Torrent programs out there. Search, and ye shall find. . .
Bit Torrent
www.bittorrent.com/index.html
Azureus
azureus.sourceforge.net/
Bit Tornado
www.bittornado.com/
There is file-sharing etiquette, just like there is trading etiquette. When you download shows, you are doing so because someone was willing to share them. Likewise, if you only download shows, and do not make files available to your peers, then you are referred to as a “leecher”. To make a show available to everyone is called “seeding” the show. Many torrent programs show your “health” or position of good/bad standing by your ratio of sharing shows and downloading them.
I do not pretend to know much about torrents at the moment, so I will post this link that has more information than I can give.
www.bittorrent.org/introduction.html